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waltcesca

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     Recently, I got into a, ummmm, discussion, with a couple of people in another board. The a racial term used to describe Arabs was mentioned and I took exception to it, even went so far as to call the person a racist after they claimed the only used the term to describe a very specific TYPE of person and that I shouldn't be so sensitive about it. After all, it isn't racist unless they meant EVERYONE in that group, right? Of course, I disagreed and was told that I was being unnecessarily judgmental. I, of course, answered back that there were OTHER ways to express one's dislike for another without playing the race card (actually, someone ELSE said it in a MUCH more eloquent way than I could). Anyway, despite everything that was said, we all went away, they thinking I now think of them as racist, and me thinking of them as racist. Now, to be fair, I really do not believe they are the hard core, KKK membership holding, 'kill all non-Whites' type of racists, those are the easy to see kinds. I see them as the type I run into here in California, the kind that like to tell me, 'I like you Walter, you are not like those OTHER Black people'. You know those kinds, the kind that use television to judge how a particular group of people truly are and that is how they pre-judge members of that group when first getting to know them. Everyone does it, unfortunately. It is a hard thing NOT to do. Back in High School, there was this exchange student from Australia that told me how scared she was when she first met me (we had several classes together). Turns out I was the FIRST American Black she had ever met, and back where she was from, all she knew of the Blacks in America was what she saw in our movies and our NEWS broadcasts. She was expecting me to be some kind of drug dealing, gun toting, pimp that was addicted to some type of drug with a police record that included rape and other assaults. Oh, AND I must also be a total athlete AND comedian! Sheesh, so many things to try to live up to! And, I was very happy when she realized I was NONE of those, nor were ANY of the other Blacks that went to school with us!

    BUT, I digress, here is the whole point of this post (rant that it may be):

My wife asked me why I even bother talking to these people that have already made it clear that they disagree with me? What's the use? I explained to her that while those particular people that I was directly talking to might be unmoved by my 'arguements', there are others that also might be following the discussion that may learn from my 'lessons'. Who knows? I truly do not want to change the world, just the parts that want to change. I told her even if one thousand people read what I said and only ONE person took what I was saying to heart and that stopped just ONE racial incident, then it was worth it to me to spend the energy!

     I could see in her eyes that it wasn't worth it in HER eyes, but that is why I love her so much, she doesn't just follow my lead. While that might be easier in my life, it would also be boring if EVERYBODY saw things the way I do! (at least that is what I tell myself)

     Racism is the one truly non-discriminating thing on this planet! I know it, I have seen it. But, just because it IS everywhere, that does NOT make it alright to accept lesser forms of it! Fertilizer still smells like FECES no matter how much you cover it!

 

This concludes Walter's weekly rant on something, we will now return you to your regularly scheduled life - <END RANT>


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chevy

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I thought that was an athletic comedian with rhythm Walt.  

 

It's a shame there have to be 'discussions' like that on boards and people feel the need for name-calling.  Perhaps you have opened a few eyes cuz you know we love you Walt and we know when backed up against a wall that you'll stand up for your convictions. (I was going to say 'come out fighting' but I didn't want to put on any labels).

 

What it boils down to Walt is it bothers you because you care.  If that labels you as over sensitive then so be it.  That's one of the magnetic things about you, it's obvious you care about people and feelings and a whole lot of other things so many others are indifferent about.  That’s what makes you such a vibrant part of this online community.

 

And you’re right about another thing.  It would be a boring place if everyone saw things the same way.  And we’ve grown rather fond of your way!


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ManInBlack

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My point has always been that there are other people listening besides those involved in the conversation. There are always far more lurkers than participants.

These folks are being exposed to the racists point of view already, so if you don't speak up they may not realize that there is another point of view.

Are you being oversensitive? That's a subjective point, and probably the first (civil) defense of someone accused of racism, or anything else for that matter. Depending on the context, I may not consider someone who uses derogatory stereotypes a racist, but it lessens my opinion of their intelligence. That happens silently, without them ever knowing.

The purpose of discussion is to make all the parties involved think. If you don't raise the issues that you notice, you're not doing your part.

Don't worry about what they thought when they walked away, Waltcesca, just hope that you planted a seed that they may think about later.



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waltcesca

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Don't worry about what they thought when they walked away, Waltcesca, just hope that you planted a seed that they may think about later.

 

What ME WORRY?  Nobody actually KNOWS where I live, besides, I have NOT declared for office (yet)


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Questmaker

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManInBlack


The purpose of discussion is to make all the parties involved think. If you don't raise the issues that you notice, you're not doing your part.

Don't worry about what they thought when they walked away, Waltcesca, just hope that you planted a seed that they may think about later.




And even if they don't you can be sure that there are others that you made think. I've noticed that you are very eloquent when you make your points. That goes a lot farther than any argument they could have given.
waltcesca

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Thanks, I knew all that schooling was for something!  I have often wondered in amazement how people can be so (in my opinion) puposefully obtuse (obtuse? Is that a word? LOL is that a word that I use?)

 

Ahhh well, you can lead a horse to water, but it's illegal to drown him there! (or is it 'can't make him drink?)


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YATHINK

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Jeez I wonder where this happened...........

 

You know in my opinion using any those type of words about anybody

is still racist............

now maybe using a different word.......

dumb, stupid, Idiotic......etc.........words I also taught my son were not appropriate to use, would have been better.........

 

I just don't like being derogatory about anyone...

but sometimes I guess you have to be.......

 


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Questmaker

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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltcesca

Thanks, I knew all that schooling was for something! I have often wondered in amazement how people can be so (in my opinion) puposefully obtuse (obtuse? Is that a word? LOL is that a word that I use?)

Ahhh well, you can lead a horse to water, but it's illegal to drown him there! (or is it 'can't make him drink?)



Ah frell Walt! You know what I mean. A reasoned argument gets more people thinking than all the shouting in the world.
waltcesca

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questmaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltcesca

Thanks, I knew all that schooling was for something! I have often wondered in amazement how people can be so (in my opinion) puposefully obtuse (obtuse? Is that a word? LOL is that a word that I use?)

Ahhh well, you can lead a horse to water, but it's illegal to drown him there! (or is it 'can't make him drink?)



Ah frell Walt! You know what I mean. A reasoned argument gets more people thinking than all the shouting in the world.

 

LOL, of course I know, I just was having a really large, MS related head/eye-ache happen all at once whilst responding! And you are absolutly correct (though a quick note, I actually came from the 'If they do NOT speak English, repeat it in a LOUDER voice, sooner or later they will understand!) Not that I actually think that way, just remembering how I had been raised.

 


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nannyjo

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Reply with quote  #10 

Okay, I haven't replied to this post yet, because I have a "confession" of sorts and I need to make to come clean.  I will try to type as tactfully as I can so as not to offend anyone.  I apologize in advance if I can't.

 

I grew up in a "farming" type community... but basically at the end of the era.  Everyone was the same... no one was any better or worse than anyone else.  Everyone worked just as hard as their neighbor to make it through. 

 

I grew up hearing stories about my Great Grandfather and his best friends and all of the trouble and fun that they got into.  The names that they were called in the community were VERY racial according to "today's standards."  My GreatGrandfather, was known as "German John," one friend "Jew Miller"  and their other good friend was "N" (yes *THAT* "N word") Burley.  Let me just say that I was quite old before I realized that that was "A BAD WORD."  As strange as it feels to admit here... Both words... names...  were metioned just a descriptive term then.. no malice was meant, I am convinced of it.   Because I really only ever associated those words with some much loved men, it took me a long time to realize WHY those term were considered unacceptable. 

 

Yes I AM naive.... AND slow  (I'll say it before anyone else can    )

 

I felt HORRIBLE once I reallized that things were different in the "Outside" World."  The Burley family and the Miller families were part of the community - just like everyone else.  It honestly never even dawned on me that some people "outside my backyard" could even THINK that people are different.

 

You did the right thing, Walt.  Just MAKING others think for once and use their own brains is the BEST thing that you could have done.

 

We are GLAD that you "bother."  


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ManInBlack

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltcesca

(obtuse? Is that a word? LOL is that a word that I use?)




Obtuse is a word from geometry. It describes an angle of greater than 90 degrees. Thus someone that is obtuse is dull.

Nannyjo, I don't think you have anything to apologize for, but then I already said that sensitivity is subjective. At some point in time words went from being descriptions of things to having a moral weight of their own.

That's why we're now stuck using words that don't mean anything because they don't have any "negative connotations". That is until they develop a meaning, actually describe something, and someone takes offense. Then we come up with a new word.

Take for instance the dreaded "N" word. We can't even write it now, but I can't walk down the street without hearing it used as a part of conversation by "African-Americans". Of course if a caucasian uses the word he'll be crucified. But the word started out just as neutral as the word "Caucasian". Just a description of race. In common usage it's pronunciation and spelling fell to slang, and now anyone with dark skin has to be identified with a continent that they have no connection with, and people with light skin from that continent can't call themselves what they actually are without causing confusion, at the very least.

This must be what it was like in the tower of Babel.



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chevy

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Words can be a powerful tool.  But excuse me while I go off on a rant about how we continue to butcher the English Language!

 

Take a word as simplistic as awful.  This innocent word started out as an adjective meaning inspiring awe.  As an adverb it meant filled with awe: deeply respectful or reverential.  By the late 18th century it became an exaggerated negative.

 

So when I tell someone "You look awful today", I'm somewhat amazed that they take offense. 


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nice topic

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waltcesca

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     Well, it's been awhile but a personality flaw of mine has raised it's head! Luckily, in the end, nothing became of it, but I could feel my blood boiling and heart pounding in my ears. I was actually BOTH looking forward to what was in store and at the same time, apprehensive about the outcome, whatever it would be.

     I am talking about my 'knight in shining armor' syndrome! Yes, it is true, I have a tendency to come to the aid of ANY 'damsel in distress', it has not always ended well for me, but that is why it is a 'flaw'.

     Alright, what am I talking about? Well, yesterday, I was driving to pick up my wife from work. While driving there, I noticed a woman arguing with a man on the side of the road (not my side, across the street). As I was at a stop sign, I had a moment to watch, I always watch people arguing because sometimes it goes beyond arguing, the world has enough fights as it is. Anyway, the man grabs ahold of the woman by her hair and pulled her from the car! They started pushing and pulling at each other, yelling and cursing in English AND Spanish! Normally, if there had been no physical contact, I might have been amused, but as it was, I was NOT.

     I park and get out of the car, across from them and called out to the man, 'Hey, I am a better target for you to hit on, leave her alone and do that to me' I added 'I am injured so it shouldn't be too hard for you, but not as hard as that woman, come ON!'

     He looked at me for a moment, I am not ashamed to say I was very, VERY scared that he would actually come over to fight (or worse, that he had a gun hidden on his person)! I wasn't kidding, I really wasn't feeling up to a fight, I was having trouble keeping my feet at that time, I just wanted to defuse their situation. It worked, the an got back into the car and left, that is when I noticed there was a child in the car and another, older person as well.

     I walked (alright, actually I limped) over to the woman and asked if I could give her a ride somewhere, but she started saying, 'No habla Ingles' LOL, I knew she was lying, but that wasn't a fight I was ready to get into right there. She was alright physically as far as I could tell so I let it go. She walk away and started up the street, I got back to my car.

     That man and the others in the car, walked by me (looking hard the other way), and you know what? The son, about 8 years old, was wearing a uniform of a dojo that was around the corner! So I reckon he wants his son to learn better ways to beat the women or something. On the other hand, perhaps this martial arts training will break that cycle, eventually.

     Oh, the third person? He must have been in his 60s, and overweight. He was not a threat to anyone. But the 'man' was 25-35 and looked to be in average (at least) shape, it would have been interesting at the least.

     I am keeping my eye on the local news in case there are any reports of a battered and killed woman that washed up around here, I can give the P.D. a description of at least where the son takes lessons. Unfortunately, I don't remember what he looked like, too average.

      BTW, you might ask way I didn't call the police? That's easy, my cell phone was sitting on the kitchen table! Believe me, if I had it with me, this post would have been MUCH smaller! I may have a 'Save the women & children' 'flaw', but it does NOT involve NOT calling the police as a first measure.


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MACJR

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Reply with quote  #15 

I know that situation. It was a few years ago for me. I was walking back from the mailbox and heard a couple arguing... and the guy was acting threatening. I tried to ignore it until he started to get physical. I do not remember what I said but it did stop him for a minute, or until he thought I had left. I had not made it far before I heard a "Smack!" I headed back in double time and said something about beating the something or another out of him if he didn't stop that right now. He stopped. I stood by until he went to his apartment muttering something or another and the woman recovered enough composure to drive off.

 

The dude was of good size and had me on weight but I was in peak physical condition at the time and it probably showed.

 

I never heard from him again.

 

I hate that kind of situation. I did not want to fight but there was no way I would stand there and let some jerk beat on a woman.

 

 

MACJR

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