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waltcesca

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Reply with quote  #16 

Oh so many thoughts and comments about this episode, where to start?

 

NJ, I agree with your take (actually, all of you have great merits and thoughts) - Using Fifth as ONE example, fact is that we could never be all the way sure about what that replicator would or wouldn't do once 'freed', we did see what he did when he learned anger didn't we? Now, about the Who Aliens - while their leader did claim the fight would be the final action to decide and he DID give in and accept defeat and the terms given to him, the first time Dr. Who turned his back, he tried to kill him! Was this just him? Was this a culture thing with their race? We will never know, but, unfortunately, this really was a wise course for the PM to take, it did leave a bad taste in my mouth, but that doesn't make it any less the correct move to have made. How could the Doctor really say he would be there to defend at all times and against all threats? At the very best, he could say he would AVENGE any attacks or REPEL any alien takeovers, but 100% protection? The way he bounces back and forth around time and the universe? And we thought the Goa'uld and Tok'ra were smug little S.O.B.'s

 

      Now, of course the PM could have held that weapon as a surprise, but, how would she (or any of us) actually know that it would be of help against any other species that came along? Maybe that weapon only worked because the shields were not activated? How fast does that weapon recharge? We just don't know!

 

 

 

     Yes, the PM shot the bested person in the back. Underhanded, yeppers it was. However, remember something I have always heard growing up; there is NO such animal as a 'fair' fight. What the PM did was in the best overall interest of the planet. I don't think this attitude would work in the 'real' world .... actually, it would! Too bad there isn't enough of that honesty when dealing with others going around. Of course, that would mean EVERY one would have to be honest with each other and themselves. Now who really wants that? If that is what we all wanted, there would have never been a need for the creation of 'Politically Correctness', the BIGGEST excuse to lie to people EVER invented! (IMHO,of course)

 


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chevy

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Reply with quote  #17 

Dr Who is a time traveler....... excuse me...... the time lord...... so doesn't that mean he could just come back anytime and fix things or chase away the bad guys?  And on that note..... couldn't he just come back to the same time and stop the PM before she shoots the bad guys in the back?  And maybe that's why he is confident in saying he'll be there whenever Earth needs him.  Think of the times the Earth has been destroyed and he was able to just come back and save it just in the nick of time.  I mean, we're talking about someone who can basically manipulate time.  Not only does he know history but he's helping write it.


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waltcesca

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Reply with quote  #18 

Oh sure, there IS that, so why didn't he, in all his infinite wisdom, just do that? He easily could have gone back and stopped them from attacking, stopped the building of the Torchwood, AND saved JFK! But, he did not because, I don't think he is as powerful as he would lead us to believe. More powerful than anyone we have met, for sure, but remember, his race was all but wiped out by another race, and he cold not go back and save them either! I don't think we are as important as his old friends were, so no, I don't think he could really have done anything more than 'Avenge' Earth, which is kinda the same as 'defended' isn't it?


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MACJR

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Reply with quote  #19 

Quote:
Originally Posted by waltcesca

Oh sure, there IS that, so why didn't he, in all his infinite wisdom, just do that? He easily could have gone back and stopped them from attacking, stopped the building of the Torchwood, AND saved JFK! But, he did not because, I don't think he is as powerful as he would lead us to believe. More powerful than anyone we have met, for sure, but remember, his race was all but wiped out by another race, and he cold not go back and save them either! I don't think we are as important as his old friends were, so no, I don't think he could really have done anything more than 'Avenge' Earth, which is kinda the same as 'defended' isn't it?

Walt, Chevy, you are both forgetting that there are some rules to time travel. There are some nasty creatures out there that tend to encourage time travelers to follow the rules.

 

Not that I actually liked that episode, but they did establish this last season.

 

And Walt, about the Torchwood weapon, um, what if it hadn't been strong enough for the alien ship? Would that not have made a retreating enemy very, very, angry and come back now rather than later?

 

Anyway, not only did I find what the Prime Minister did to be unethical, rude, wrong headed, and an abuse of power, among other things, it could have backfired in a major way. It is like a person who doesn't know when they have won the fight that keeps kicking until the loser gets up and fights back again... and this time, wins. Fortunately for the PM, that did not happen this time, but her actions could come with a price down the road. And yes, the aliens might have decided to come back at a later time anyway, but they might also have decided to leave Earth alone. Now, there could be a bunch of angry alien siblings and cousins out there with a grudge against Earth and soon to be looking for revenge.

 

 

MACJR


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waltcesca

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MACJR

Quote:
Originally Posted by waltcesca

Oh sure, there IS that, so why didn't he, in all his infinite wisdom, just do that? He easily could have gone back and stopped them from attacking, stopped the building of the Torchwood, AND saved JFK! But, he did not because, I don't think he is as powerful as he would lead us to believe. More powerful than anyone we have met, for sure, but remember, his race was all but wiped out by another race, and he cold not go back and save them either! I don't think we are as important as his old friends were, so no, I don't think he could really have done anything more than 'Avenge' Earth, which is kinda the same as 'defended' isn't it?

Walt, Chevy, you are both forgetting that there are some rules to time travel. There are some nasty creatures out there that tend to encourage time travelers to follow the rules.

 

Not that I actually liked that episode, but they did establish this last season.

 

And Walt, about the Torchwood weapon, um, what if it hadn't been strong enough for the alien ship? Would that not have made a retreating enemy very, very, angry and come back now rather than later?

 

Anyway, not only did I find what the Prime Minister did to be unethical, rude, wrong headed, and an abuse of power, among other things, it could have backfired in a major way. It is like a person who doesn't know when they have won the fight that keeps kicking until the loser gets up and fights back again... and this time, wins. Fortunately for the PM, that did not happen this time, but her actions could come with a price down the road. And yes, the aliens might have decided to come back at a later time anyway, but they might also have decided to leave Earth alone. Now, there could be a bunch of angry alien siblings and cousins out there with a grudge against Earth and soon to be looking for revenge.

 

 

MACJR

 

While I actually do agree in principle, didn't the Doctor identify himself as to who he was when he accepted the challenge of the leader of those other aliens? Didn't said leader, in front of all of his people, give his word that the battle was done and over with? Since their leader wasn't stopped by his own people, nor did they even make a peep of protest when he get up to stab Who in the back, doesn't that pretty much tell where THEIR values are (were)?

 

Now, I still think the PM, while in her rights to do what she did, was mostly wrong, but there is absolutely no way to know what would have happened if they got away! Oh, and when was the LAST time they introduced 'good' and 'friendly' aliens?

 

Just a thought, but we should also remember the PM's prior experience with aliens from other worlds! Fact is, in HER mind and experiences, there was NEVER a threat from aliens until Dr. Who showed up! Never mind that his being there had nothing to do with all the different attacks and everything to do with surviving those attacks.

 

Too many variables to pick who was 'right' or 'wrong'. But, I still think that the Torchwood was brought out too quickly, I wager it can't reload to fire very fast and would be inadequate against several ships at once. But, that is my opinion.


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nannyjo

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Reply with quote  #21 

Like Walt said - they didn't seem too good about keeping their word - at least we never PROMISED to leave them alone. I honestly can say what was the right or wrong decision.  I'm just glad I didn't have to make it.

 

... and I still like her.  I wonder if we will see her again.

 

I do like the new Who, by the way.  He seems more energetic and less moody than the last one.  I thought HE could be pretty nasty sometimes.  I need to see more of this one before I make up my mind totally, though


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chevy

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Reply with quote  #22 

Well the PM was new at the job and the most experience she'd had was when she encountered aliens the last time Who was around.  She showed great hope and there was the fact that all the other leaders were kinda eliminated.

 

I liked the other Who.  He was rather rude at times but wouldn't you be if you spent all that time getting rid of bizarre aliens?  The new Who seems a little too chipper (which is probably why NJ likes him) and perhaps he'll toughen up in time.  The old Who was somewhat reminiscent of Fawlty Towers.  The outrageousness is what made it so much fun to watch.


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Questmaker

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chevy

The old Who was somewhat reminiscent of Fawlty Towers. The outrageousness is what made it so much fun to watch.



Funny you should say that because there were moments when I thought that this new Who was channeling Hugh Laurie when he was in Black Adder.
chevy

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Reply with quote  #24 

It's funny you should mention Hugh Laurie because I've been following his new show "House".  Somehow I missed his other life and didn't even realize he had an English accent until I saw him on "Inside the Actors Studio".  He is very talented.


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Reply with quote  #25 
I really wanted to find a good clip from Black Adder The Third but of the few I found none really show Hugh in all his Prince Regent Glory. The best I could find was from Black Adder Goes Forth.
On the right you will find a link for the Twenty-minuters.

chevy

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Reply with quote  #26 

Thanks Quest.  They showed a few clips from some of his work (over the past 20 years) when he was on Inside the Actors Studio.  I'll check out the link you left.


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